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Post by deechen on Feb 27, 2015 7:38:45 GMT
Controls were quite complex and you forgot g and j. i've remapped ur model so that all the keys which i think is easier to master, hope u dont mine @ popotato flying machine 12_R.bsg (14.72 KB) i dunno what is the working principle behind how ur craft rolls & pitch with the the wheels & swivel at the base, but its bloody interesting that it works, i put a co axle on them & they work great! though i'm still trying to get the hang of how to control. keep exploring! Z to lift off (use ur left hand ring finger to keep holding X to move up C to move down collective pitch i dunno how useful they are since u're on a speed up & slow down rotor speed for altitude control design so i placed them at arrow up more lift arrow down less lift as for movement. i always love this setting even since i played some RC heli simulator ages back. it usually maps on the num pad but since im on a laptop now. its still pretty much 6 keys config packed together.they are together because some times u can jam 2 keys like U & J together to do a nice banking left turn in forward flight. I pitch nose down (move forward) K pitch nose up (move backwards) J point nose to the left, tail right (yaw left) L point nose to the right, tail left (yaw right) U roll left O roll right UPDATE:controlsystemtwin.bsg (17.52 KB) vandom your system for control is awesome, i experimented and if u remove the ballast & fitted more wheels, the reaction speed is faster. sorry i know u guys are on the topic of stable single rotor, but man this is fun. to fly controls same as above i think. also it reacts faster is the body is close to the rotors
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Post by vandom on Feb 27, 2015 9:39:49 GMT
vandom your system for control is awesome, i experimented and if u remove the ballast & fitted more wheels, the reaction speed is faster. sorry i know u guys are on the topic of stable single rotor, but man this is fun. to fly controls same as above i think. also it reacts faster is the body is close to the rotors It's funny I have been using that control system since my first helicopters, well the ones that could fly. Don't even want to get into how they were controlled before that. Haven't really changed it till today when I swapped out ballasts for armor placed on the end of a wheel. It reduced the size by 1 block because the armor phases into the swivel block. In my early tests I remember the ballast was more effective than 2 more wheels. This was true at speed 1, but speed 2 wheels are better and don't appear to have as much momentum that causes a kick when the wheels stop turning. However they still do take up more space and are quite heavy. Thank you for experimenting, and making me take a second look at probably the oldest piece of my helicopters. My smaller helicopters have been having issues so tomorrow some changes might be happening.
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Post by popotato on Feb 27, 2015 15:25:21 GMT
i've remapped ur model so that all the keys which i think is easier to master, hope u dont mine @ popotato i dunno what is the working principle behind how ur craft rolls & pitch with the the wheels & swivel at the base, but its bloody interesting that it works, i put a co axle on them & they work great! though i'm still trying to get the hang of how to control. keep exploring! no I don't mind at all!! the idea comes from vandom's helicopters, just that I'm using a heavier ballast I think... adding below also works too now we can eliminate flying blocks!!! (oops vandom did it long time ago)
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Post by Felix on Feb 27, 2015 20:15:48 GMT
Greetings Besiegians, first I would like to thank Spiderling for what promises to be an awesome game and I'd like to thank everyone who posted here for helping come to some (limited) understanding of design principles. I'm trying to home brew a rotor assembly for v0.0.4 and would value any feedback. The following isn't a full machine, just a test stand and my rotor, my objectives for this design are: - High lift and stability to weight ratio.
- "Hands free" and variable lift from the same assembly.
- Minimal size for some forlorn hope of fitting eventual finished craft into the level advancement box.
REx1.bsg (16.14 KB)
Again, everything at the same leval as the starting block and below is nothing but a test stand but the stand it's self is fairly beefy (ballasts hide some bracing) and rotors still hover it with 36 ballasts at default weight settings added to it. The up and down arrows increase or decrease lift. I exploited the fact that braces seem to exist and not exist at the same time in certain ways but aside from that I don't think I used any tricks, the assembly seems quite stable without invincibility. [Edit to add: I kept the spinning blocks and powered wheels at default speed settings as a design test, more lift can be gained by increasing these.]
So, what can I do to improve this? the center of the rotor is a ballast (set to min weight) sandwiched between two unpowered wheels to separate the two counter rotating halves, is there a more efficient way of achieving the same thing, perhaps something that saves height? I should point out that the bottom half of the rotor was built ground up but the top half top down, I'm still pretty new but that seemed to be the only way to keep the clockwise rotation of the bottom rotor from countering the opposite spin of the top rotor.
My thanks in advance for any feedback and suggestions, I'm loving this game and community.
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Post by vandom on Feb 27, 2015 20:42:27 GMT
adding below also works too now we can eliminate flying blocks!!! Was done a long time ago. besiege.freeforums.net/post/3287/threadI personally find it adds a lot of weight and is awkward to fit so I switched to using the flying blocks for yaw controls. Felix your craft will spin because your speed control is directly mounted to the frame. Adding a swivel between them will fix that issue, however then you will have no grip for the wheels to spin the rotor and it will be even larger. I recommend linking the top and bottom together so that when one spins, it spins the other. It cuts down on size and complexity a bit. The hands free always spinning rotors aren't my specialty so if someone else wants to add or correct me on that part feel free. Edit: Did a little work on the pitch/roll controls. This design shrunk it down even more and gives more than enough power. It was a bit difficult to put together. HeleX6Mini5Test.bsg (10.11 KB) Controls Pitch up/down Roll left/right Yaw 4/6 Thrust 5/5+8/5+2
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Post by deechen on Feb 28, 2015 2:14:12 GMT
Felix. this is what i usually use for hands free lift. the rotor assembly works totally independent from the main body thanks to swivel. so in order to get any torque going, 3 spinning block are placed so that either the top or the bottom block spins in opposite direction. spinning block never stops running so the only way to control the amount of lift is by changing the angle of attack of the attached props. which where the steering blocks comes into play. how is works is i will usually set all 3 spinning blocks to a very high speed(note: a 3 needs to be at the same speed) to created more than enough lift, and then slowly tapping on the controls for the steering blocks to slowly find the sweet spot for hover or close to hover up & down movements. from there on its all about the steering blocks' control for collective pitch control. besiege.freeforums.net/post/8035
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Post by popotato on Feb 28, 2015 5:38:48 GMT
today's results improved rotor design for my 12th helicopter rotor that that allow opposite blades to have different angle just pure mechanism though not yet found anything useful about them. They are okay rotors but not as stable as the fixed ones sometimes.
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Post by comedinyan on Feb 28, 2015 16:11:21 GMT
Hey, pals! I found the solution to all our problems! HopefullySo, the story is, I am a student of Moscow Aviation Institute. And I have a friend from faculty "Aeronautical Engineering", which is studying on cathedra of helicopter engineering. So today I had the ability to talk to him about our cause. We agreed on that we can't talk objectively as he is unfamiliar with the game, but he mentioned Sikorsky's helicopter design (I've proven wrong; as wiki says, first one that has this type of main rotor was Doblhoff WNF 342, which has nothing to do with Sikorsky) - the only way IRL to not have to cancel out rotation made by just one main rotor. Here are two first designs of the rotor idea: RotorSikorsky.bsg (2.85 KB) RotorSikorsky1.bsg (3.83 KB) PS: personally I am a student of "Applied Mathematics and Physics" faculty, so that limits my knowledge of aeronautics.
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Post by starficz on Feb 28, 2015 16:16:41 GMT
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Post by AJW on Feb 28, 2015 18:49:45 GMT
comedinyan: nice design. Have you tried it on a helicopter yet?
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Post by hky93 on Feb 28, 2015 18:55:15 GMT
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Post by comedinyan on Feb 28, 2015 19:00:08 GMT
AJW not yet, will probably try later this evening or tomorrow.
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Post by zorlord on Feb 28, 2015 19:45:29 GMT
i cnt get the damned thing off the ground... not enough lift
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Post by starficz on Feb 28, 2015 20:26:24 GMT
zorlord Who are you talking to?
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Post by comedinyan on Feb 28, 2015 20:57:20 GMT
Yay, I finally made a heli from scratch! Also, I did find out a problem with vandom's turning system - wheels are rotating when simulation starts. Which makes no sense for me, but, I guess, Unity knows better. I will upload this bug preview as well as my helicopter flying test. Also, found out I may call that rotor "tip jet main rotor" and not be painfully incorrect. Link to the post here.
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