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Post by Amadan on Feb 10, 2015 12:46:22 GMT
I originally intended to ask a question rather than make a suggestion, but it seemed to me that it fits the suggestion board best.
Anyway, here's the question:
Are there any plans to allow anything like Garry's Mod's Wiremod in Besiege, either through vanilla stuff or mods?
I imagine most people who are familiar with Besiege this early also know Wiremod, but for those that don't, it's a mod^2 for Garry's Mod that greatly improves and expands the ability to control your contraption. In Vanilla Garry's Mod you have to control your contraption like you do in Besiege (where you assign a button to an active component to basically control whether it's on or off, with 2 buttons for wheels and company).
With Wiremod you can (among other things) also control other parameters of the components on the fly. I guess in Besiege those parameters would be contractible spring length, hinge/steering position and speed for... everything I guess. But more importantly, Wiremod lets you to write a program to control your contraption, which allows you to "refine" your imput, like the simple task of converting annoying tank-like controls to WASD or automating sequence of controls for reloading a catapult or controlling a walker.
It also includes sensors, which (among other things) enable automatic stabilization by measuring orientation and converting it via aforementioned program into input for active components, or a hovercraft by measuring distance from the ground so that it can try to hover at a certain height.
Then there's another feature that I'm really fond of. Wiremod also includes the ability measure mouse movement, which means (for instance) that you can properly control an aircraft or a tank turret with your mouse (would probably work much better with a fixed first/third person camera though).
So basically: those features please, thank you. 
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Post by Arlekin on Feb 10, 2015 12:52:53 GMT
Would you please check for existing proposals before posting ?
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Post by zodium on Feb 10, 2015 14:07:18 GMT
Would you please just let people post their suggestions? It's not like we're going to run out of threads, and the stickied collection post is basically unreadable.
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Post by Arlekin on Feb 10, 2015 14:15:00 GMT
I am not forbidding, and although this collection still requires some work its more readable than manually browsing through threads. And however im ok with fact that duplicates were, are and will be - i think it would be the best if we manage to keep it at minimum. We post it to inspire devs, and discuss it - its hardly convenient for devs to browse all threads especially with duplicating ideas, also discussing basically same feature in few threads isn't very productive. Also if you have any ideas how i could make this collection better please tell me (i have some idea, but it may not be the most optimal one). And finally i'd like to apologize if sometimes i come a little hard on duplicating posts - im trying not to, its just i really put a lot of work pro publico bono in that collection, and it is kinda frustrating is someone is to lazy to even skim it. I do understand that its terifying (im constantly editing it so im fully aware what a monstrosity that is) and im really trying to make the best of it, and i do understand that people in general don't look at such threads, so im trying to keep my cool  So: sorry, and any ideas are very welcome. |
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Post by Amadan on Feb 10, 2015 14:15:27 GMT
I did check. If you think macros are all I'm talking about, would you please read more than the title before replying?
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Post by Arlekin on Feb 10, 2015 14:18:13 GMT
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Post by zodium on Feb 10, 2015 14:31:23 GMT
I am not forbidding, and although this collection still requires some work its more readable than manually browsing through threads. And however im ok with fact that duplicates were, are and will be - i think it would be the best if we manage to keep it at minimum. We post it to inspire devs, and discuss it - its hardly convenient for devs to browse all threads especially with duplicating ideas, also discussing basically same feature in few threads isn't very productive. Also if you have any ideas how i could make this collection better please tell me (i have some idea, but it may not be the most optimal one). And finally i'd like to apologize if sometimes i come a little hard on duplicating posts - im trying not to, its just i really put a lot of work pro publico bono in that collection, and it is kinda frustrating is someone is to lazy to even skim it. I do understand that its terifying (im constantly editing it so im fully aware what a monstrosity that is) and im really trying to make the best of it, and i do understand that people in general don't look at such threads, so im trying to keep my cool So: sorry, and any ideas are very welcome. I understand the sentiment, but ideas that share a similar topic or proposed mechanics aren't necessarily identical. I think it's very useful for the developers to have this collection because it lets them easily see many variations on the same idea, but it would be utterly crippling for productive debate to establish a tradition of requiring everyone to check what will clearly be a rapidly growing summary. It's not a question of organization, it's just that the forums already produce more output than you can expect any individual user to review even in abridged form. Edit: Also, I do check it, you just can't expect any random user to do so. :v |
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Post by zodium on Feb 10, 2015 14:37:22 GMT
Oh, and to actually contribute here, I obviously think it's a terrific idea, and I assume it's already planned.
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Post by vvaid0 on Feb 10, 2015 14:41:53 GMT
I enjoyed this thread and the read. As a reader I'm not going to go through the stickied thread and endlessly scroll through it and look at all the suggestions. Actively new threads even though they may be similar here and there are not necessarily the same keep things fresh and simple to go through.
If it were one thing being tooted over and over that's one thing but things that are only duplicates or pushed back a few pages on a forum basically become outdated.
You're basically being a bully Arlekin. Let people voice what they want to say. They want to be part of the community and are excited about their suggestions otherwise they wouldn't post them.
If one person keeps posting the same idea over and again then there is issues.
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Post by Arlekin on Feb 10, 2015 14:48:44 GMT
Good point (the developers vs users point of usability). Because of all those amazing, detailed suggestions i always include links to all threads - so seeing that there is several ideas about multiplayer *developer* can conveniently check concrete threads for creative details. About usefullness for user - it surely is true that over time such list will became much harder to read, let alone maintain - thats what i've agreed to fight with. Although this might not be visible yet, my final design is to have sections (preferably in some big, visible font) so someone having an idea about new gamemode would skim only those distinct categories to see what there is, and then would have few threads and after this minute or two one may make informed decision about whether one want to create his own thread or join discussion in some other. At least thats my (for sure idealistic) assumption, and of course there is still a lot to do (although im on good run today). I'd also like to state that despite all my nagging i constantly update this list (i added this thread right after i read it), so i don't judge in any way (only things i omit are those already implemented in game, and implemented for sure if i have doubts i prefer to ask community - besiege.freeforums.net/thread/673/keymapper-good)The main thing that bothers me, is not, as you guys supposedly felt, innocent creativity which happen to overlap with some other ideas, the thing is dull, non-constructive repetition, proposals like: besiege.freeforums.net/thread/322/pvp-vision - neither creative nor detailed. So that is the reason i made the list, and the reason im so conscious about duplicates - im sorry if i ccame on too hard sometimes (as i said), im trying not to |
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Post by Amadan on Feb 10, 2015 15:11:11 GMT
I don't know what exactly a macro officially encompasses, but I'm pretty sure it's not a program. Admittedly I didn't know the parameters thing was already mentioned. But if I was sure everyone here knew Wiremod, I would've just "suggested" Wiremod.
Being able to write a program, not just macros, and having sensors and mouse input are a big deal. I played Garry's Mod with and without Wiremod (it's very similar to Besiege without) and I can safely say it's the single greatest existing or conceivable & doable addition.
Edit:
So, uh... in the time it took me to think of what to say (during which I didn't refresh) I see 5 new replies. To everyone who agrees, thank you for your agreeing, I agree with it.
As for Arlekin, I can imagine my post wasn't the clearest ever, half the time I was wondering whether what I wrote was grammatically correct or had some subtle mistake that made it look retarded and the other half I was thinking about how to "dumb it down" for people unfamiliar with Garry's Mod. Sorry about rambling like that, but I stand by my rambling.
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Post by Arlekin on Feb 10, 2015 17:42:46 GMT
Amadan i think the whole situation originated from my, not-exactly-very-polite, reply for which i am sorry. To go back on more meritoric track - i think the idea is great (as you've seen i proposed macros myself). For the record i never heard about wiremod and have rather bleak notion about garry's mod - however your, as you said, "rambling" was good enough for me to grasp the idea. About macro's / programming thing. For me there is absolutely no difference to what extent it will be implemented and how would we call it - regardless if it would be simple combining keys, setting delays / durations for some (as someone suggested), or fully fledged "programming language" (like in "Colobot") - i will be happy (of course more functionality the better), although maybe i would prefer if there was some limits, cause if i'd want to program, i would program in something real, i mean - i'd like to keep gameplay about constructing, not programming (if you know what i mean). Bottom line - something enabling to automate tasks - like your proposed - for instance reloading catapult - is absolute neccessity, i have no preferences about form of such thing though. And in subject of sensors you may like to check Modding thread (iirc in general discussion) VapidLinus did there something about auto stabilizing propelers. (in sense that you my find that interesting)
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