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Post by Besiegineer on Feb 27, 2015 17:48:18 GMT
so i decided to do a weight experiment...  (left to right) all flyblocks maxed at 1.25 1:Ballast set for 0.20 2:Decoupler 3:single wood block (the control weight) 4:piston 5:brace spanning 2 block length heres the results.  winners 1st:0.20 ballast (wow) 2nd: Control wooden block. 3rd:2 block brace (didnt think it was that heavy  ) 4th: piston (suspension might weigh the same) 5th: decoupler (why so heavy?) UPDATE: 2 of the 0.20 ballasts are lighter than double wooden blocks but the single is barely faster than the 2 ballast! vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
weighttest.bsg (2.21 KB) Test it if you want. pretty interesting. might be good to replace those heavy wooden frames with ballasts, additionally ballast doesnt burn! (just make sure to set the 0.20!!)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |
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Post by valdarkwall on Feb 27, 2015 17:58:16 GMT
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Post by Besiegineer on Feb 27, 2015 18:10:09 GMT
interesting. going to have to test the braces now.. make one much longer and see. okay. so i made a brace that was about 10 blocks long and 2 0.20 ballasts and the 2 block brace easily beat it.. however! i stacked ballasts as high as the long brace and longbrace won. so over long distance brace is lighter. but for short distance go with ballast. |
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Post by valdarkwall on Feb 27, 2015 18:32:02 GMT
okay. so i made a brace that was about 10 blocks long and 2 0.20 ballasts and the 2 block brace easily beat it.. however! i stacked ballasts as high as the long brace and longbrace won. so over long distance brace is lighter. but for short distance go with ballast. But one important notice: a brace is not symmetrical. So mass center will shift without some compensation. |
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Post by AJW on Feb 27, 2015 21:22:17 GMT
The problem with that test is that you may be measuring the effect of two different things: weight and drag.
I ran a test earlier simultaneously dropping two ballast blocks from altitude using my airship, one at min 0.2 mass and one at max 2.0. Disappointingly they both hit the ground at the same time. Trying again with a bomb (mass 0.5) and a boulder (mass 5.0) gave the same result.
Now this is where it gets confusing: I've just tried my drop test with a decoupler, and a ballast block set to the same mass (0.5). The ballast block hit the ground first. Drag is apparently being modelled then, somehow. But not in the way I'd expect.
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Post by AJW on Feb 27, 2015 22:27:14 GMT
If somebody wants to investigate the effect of drag on falling objects further, I've just created a balloon-stabilised drop-test tower.  BSDTT-00.bsg (16.08 KB) It is currently set up to show the effects of dropping a wing panel flat compared to edge on, but it is simple enough to replace the test objects. |
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Post by CurdledMilk on Feb 27, 2015 23:13:02 GMT
Interesting ideas |
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Post by Besiegineer on Feb 28, 2015 15:02:46 GMT
okay. so i made a brace that was about 10 blocks long and 2 0.20 ballasts and the 2 block brace easily beat it.. however! i stacked ballasts as high as the long brace and longbrace won. so over long distance brace is lighter. but for short distance go with ballast. But one important notice: a brace is not symmetrical. So mass center will shift without some compensation. i attached the brace to central points on the block. thats evident by its steady upwards flight..i actually put a brace on the side of it and it did flips upon takeoff. |
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Post by Besiegineer on Feb 28, 2015 15:04:08 GMT
The problem with that test is that you may be measuring the effect of two different things: weight and drag. I ran a test earlier simultaneously dropping two ballast blocks from altitude using my airship, one at min 0.2 mass and one at max 2.0. Disappointingly they both hit the ground at the same time. Trying again with a bomb (mass 0.5) and a boulder (mass 5.0) gave the same result. Now this is where it gets confusing: I've just tried my drop test with a decoupler, and a ballast block set to the same mass (0.5). The ballast block hit the ground first. Drag is apparently being modelled then, somehow. But not in the way I'd expect. of course they hit at the same time.. newtons laws of gravity tells you that. a decoupler has a different shape however. while a ballast is almost ball-like |
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Post by Besiegineer on Feb 28, 2015 15:06:15 GMT
sorry for the triple post...im going to do another test now.. utilising a hinged see-saw. ill post the results later.
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Post by AJW on Feb 28, 2015 17:57:34 GMT
The problem with that test is that you may be measuring the effect of two different things: weight and drag. I ran a test earlier simultaneously dropping two ballast blocks from altitude using my airship, one at min 0.2 mass and one at max 2.0. Disappointingly they both hit the ground at the same time. Trying again with a bomb (mass 0.5) and a boulder (mass 5.0) gave the same result. Now this is where it gets confusing: I've just tried my drop test with a decoupler, and a ballast block set to the same mass (0.5). The ballast block hit the ground first. Drag is apparently being modelled then, somehow. But not in the way I'd expect. of course they hit at the same time.. newtons laws of gravity tells you that. a decoupler has a different shape however. while a ballast is almost ball-like Given that Besiege is supposed to be modelling an environment with an atmosphere, resulting in drag, Newton's laws on their own are clearly not sufficient to explain the likely outcome of dropping two objects of the same size and shape, but different density. And if drag isn't modelled, Newton's laws would dictate that the shape of an object would have no effect on the speed at which it dropped. |
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Post by Besiegineer on Feb 28, 2015 18:38:42 GMT
of course they hit at the same time.. newtons laws of gravity tells you that. a decoupler has a different shape however. while a ballast is almost ball-like Given that Besiege is supposed to be modelling an environment with an atmosphere, resulting in drag, Newton's laws on their own are clearly not sufficient to explain the likely outcome of dropping two objects of the same size and shape, but different density. And if drag isn't modelled, Newton's laws would dictate that the shape of an object would have no effect on the speed at which it dropped. and thats why im doing a seesaw experiment. but first.. i have a box of fun im about to share on machines. |
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