|
Post by Praesumo on Feb 18, 2015 5:30:05 GMT
Actually, I found that just having the wings attached at the center didn't stabilize at all. I'm fairly certain most of the self-stabilization comes from the "ballast blocks" that are connected by struts to the center wheel.
That, and the steering blocks that the large wings are attached to...create enough weight to act as a sort of "gyro" that stabilizes everything. You can test this by taking off all the large wing/rotors, and notice how it really doesn't change much, other than removing the hover-control ability. (or...at least that's what I remember, it's been a while)
|
|
|
Post by vandom on Feb 18, 2015 6:00:54 GMT
Pretty much all my rotor work is built upon Praes base design. I tweak it every once in a while but the vast majority of the time there isn't any way to make it better.The rotor looks beautiful, isn’t it? I used to think probably some parts are for decoration purpose. No, every little thing has its function. 1) hinders the swivel joint from spinning, this probably the most compact method to do it 2a) extension --> you can add 3 sets of props like this to increase some lifting power --> but with extension, you can attach props or wings, if you attach props it gives more/less extra lifting power as above. Not to mention this looks better and has potential for further modification. 2b)output/speed changer --> self explanatory, think this as big big bonus for precision. 3)cool wings --> Combined with rotation force, this is the thing that self-stabilizes the machine. To me, it doesn’t seem the properties of wing can perform such feat. I’m totally curious how did Pra find out about this mechanism. Can you imagine a small rotor has so many effects with it? Pra is scary… …as scary as Van. In other news I still can't think of a way to test your falling rotor effect thing. I still can't really understand why it even does that, its really strange.To clarify things, you mean veering instead of falling right? Firstly, the props give a lot of lift, like as much as one of the large wings tilted. I expect when the reversed version is added, people will discover that they work just as well as the large wings on their planes, better in many cases.As rotor’s blade, the props actually give more lift than large wings. Replace larges wings with props you’ll see. You can think props as small tilted wings. However, Pra rotor design told us we can’t replace the large wing with props as we can’t sacrifice self-stabilizing for lifting power. we can understand why the helicopter veers off when dropped. One prop is gaining lift from the forward/downward movement, the one on the other side is being pushed down which rolls the craft. Very simple. Very arrogant. Me.Okay~ *claps slowly* This was nearly impossible to replicate with a spinning rotor(and very difficult to test so take some of what I say as speculation), partially because the gained stability prevented it from rolling, instead it manifested as a push to the right. When not moving a helicopter will not experience this, however when it is moving forwards at a rapid rate, it will. I believe this is called Dissymmetry of lift or something and it will be solved with multi rotor or coaxial rotors that incorporate reversed props. Until then this force will plague the single rotor designs at high forward speeds.Yes I’m thinking more of less the same thing. It should be caused by unsymmetrical design of props. I just can’t believe it causes that much force to veer a lot of mass (even I saw it in experiment). Multi rotor might be good news… but even If rotors can spin in opposite direction… you can’t never place a propeller in mirrored fashion, like this.And this might give you A LOT of trouble to solve the veer problem. It was a test with it falling so that was the word I went with. Also I never said to replace the wings on the helicopter rotors, I said they could replace the wings on planes.(out of context I sound nuts) "Very simple" Was more a jab at myself. I overthought it to the moon and back before it finally clicked. I've seen a few threads where people were asking for reversed props or mirrored propellers. I'm sure they will get added some time so I'm not overly concerned. Actually funny thing, someone made a device that would fix the issue. Good luck fitting that on a helicopter. Actually, I found that just having the wings attached at the center didn't stabilize at all. I'm fairly certain most of the self-stabilization comes from the "ballast blocks" that are connected by struts to the center wheel. That, and the steering blocks that the large wings are attached to...create enough weight to act as a sort of "gyro" that stabilizes everything. You can test this by taking off all the large wing/rotors, and notice how it really doesn't change much, other than removing the hover-control ability. (or...at least that's what I remember, it's been a while) Yes you can achieve the same or similar effect with ballasts, I agree its just a gyro, however from my experience the wing blocks are far better at it. Its possibly because they extend their mass out farther. Actually got me thinking for a second. Flys even more stable, however tilting it forwards will shoot it off to the right like nothing you have ever experienced before.
|
|
|
Post by baoeq on Feb 18, 2015 12:46:15 GMT
I've made a machine like helicopter and recorded a video. Hope you'll enjoy it.
Machine's difficult in control, and it also take right everywhere... But I've learnt how to use it and flew it nice.
|
|
|
Post by ManaSeed on Feb 18, 2015 15:07:01 GMT
Also I never said to replace the wings on the helicopter rotors, I said they could replace the wings on planes.(out of context I sound nuts)So do you mean replace wings on plane design with props? In other words, using props as the wings of planes? P.S. (* ̄m ̄) I’m not sure if it’s just me, does it infuriate you a little when people say things like… “I’m so tired of people judging me by my beauty, I wish I can be you!” or “I know what I’ve said sounded pretty crazy to you.” or stuff like that.
I overthought it to the moon and back before it finally clicked. Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. That is all I want to say, thank you.*Crowd cries as they clap really slow* I've seen a few threads where people were asking for reversed props or mirrored propellers. I'm sure they will get added some time so I'm not overly concerned. Actually funny thing, someone made a device that would fix the issue. Good luck fitting that on a helicopter.Wow, that is so cool! Wait, what does it do? I don’t know how it works, but it sure seems a little shaky. Literally and physically. Yes you can achieve the same or similar effect with ballasts, I agree its just a gyro, however from my experience the wing blocks are far better at it. Its possibly because they extend their mass out farther. Actually got me thinking for a second.Tilted wings contributes a lot to the self-stabilizing effect, but the wings at both sides also help, and it seems there are other effects which help too. With the existence of multiple effects, it is hard to identify/understand the self-stabilizing mechanism. Can you show/upload/explain the simplest structure that demonstrates this self-stabilizing effect? Sorry, I don’t want to trouble you if I have a choice. I have been thinking for 300 seconds and I’m still puzzled. Actually got me thinking for a second.
Flys even more stable, however tilting it forwards will shoot it off to the right like nothing you have ever experienced before.*On a certain flying medieval machine* Medieval Pilot: Sir, the weather is too bad for us to fly over them. It’s suicidal to break through enemy archers with this altitude. Medieval Squad Leader: It’s obvious we can’t dodge the arrows. What do you think, Van? Medieval Engineer: Isn’t it perfect if it’s an obvious thing that we can’t dodge the arrows? We’ll approach slowly. That’s all. Medieval Pilot: What!!? We would have slightly higher chance of surviving if we dash at full speed!! Medieval Squad Leader: No, we’ll follow Van’s plan. Medieval Pilot: *whisper* not fair… Boss always sides with Van… Medieval Engineer: What-are-you-complaining? Do-you-want-me-to-kick-you? *smile* Medieval Pilot: No! Medieval Engineer: That’s a good answer! But I’m going to kick you anyway. *smile*
*At enemy encampment*
Medieval Scout: It’s enemy chopper! Heading straight for us! Steady and slow! Medieval Captain: Hmph. Reckless fools rushing to their death. Medieval Captain: Archers, on my mark! Medieval Captain: NOW!!! Fire!
*insert your favorite epic battle music*
The moment arrows leave the bow strings, Van kicks the pilot seat from behind, then magic happened.
Medieval archers: C-Captain!!! Enemy chop-p-per…. HAS V-VANISHED!!! Medieval scout: I’ve found it! It’s at 10 O’clock!!! Medieval Captain: H-How the helI did it……
Besieged chapter 4, Van’s Arc: The Right Surprise - to be continued-
|
|
|
Post by vandom on Feb 19, 2015 3:55:30 GMT
So do you mean replace wings on plane design with props? In other words, using props as the wings of planes? It's so crazy, it just might work! Everything I know about it I learned from google. The builder would know for sure. Best I can tell is it controls a helicopter by tilting only the rotor blades. So If you tilt them on one side that side would gain more or less lift, pitching the helicopter or correcting the dissymmetry of lift(the effect you found). Can you show/upload/explain the simplest structure that demonstrates this self-stabilizing effect? Its the gyroscopic effect.(fancy way of saying its like a top)
|
|
|
Post by fordfx2 on Feb 19, 2015 16:45:25 GMT
Thank you for your hard work! I've been trying to build a successful Heli for 2 days now...Time to learn off of yours
|
|
|
Post by vandom on Feb 20, 2015 4:02:42 GMT
Decided to try and make a helicopter that was both stable at hovering, and could move forwards without veering to the left or right. Looks very similar to my HeleX5 but handles very differently. It lacks in some areas because its just a proof of concept. HeleX5S.bsg (14.73 KB) Controls: Hover 5 Ascend 5+8 Descend 5+2 Pitch up/down Roll left/right Yaw 4/6 Roll to the left and right is very limited, this makes hovering control more difficult. Also when using full throttle with combined pitch and yaw pitch forward+left or back+right it sometimes likes to blow up...
|
|
|
Post by comedinyan on Feb 20, 2015 9:00:37 GMT
(* ̄m ̄) I’m not sure if it’s just me, does it infuriate you a little when people say things like… “I’m so tired of people judging me by my beauty, I wish I can be you!” or “I know what I’ve said sounded pretty crazy to you.” or stuff like that. Only then I noticed that there's a gender symbol under the forum name on the left... WTF female engineer?! Yes it is powered by unity. Let me find the proof... Here. This is the official Unity site, showing Besiege. I can't find a single damn line where it would strictly say that it is powered by Unity, but I'm sure you can find out yourself. I have an update on unity physics: "its g vector is crap, it isn't even constantly go down", according to friend of mine, which used to work with it. Everything I know about it I learned from google. The builder would know for sure. Best I can tell is it controls a helicopter by tilting only the rotor blades. So If you tilt them on one side that side would gain more or less lift, pitching the helicopter or correcting the dissymmetry of lift(the effect you found). Can you show/upload/explain the simplest structure that demonstrates this self-stabilizing effect? Its the gyroscopic effect.(fancy way of saying its like a top) Oh... This makes much more sense now! I taught it has to do something with gyroscopic effect, but I forgot that it has rotor on the top, so I were just thinking that physics engine is just buggy as Poop ^_^ PS: Mana has some writing talent!
|
|
|
Post by natesrandomness1 on Feb 21, 2015 22:27:06 GMT
When i try to play at 100% its lags and if i go slower the rudders fall off please tell me whats going on
|
|
|
Post by frosty on Feb 21, 2015 22:34:53 GMT
and I thought I was reasonable at this game... well made and flies beautifully, I have no need for the bombs, my excessive piloting skills mean I crash it into the objective every time.
|
|
|
Post by antlerfox on Feb 22, 2015 0:28:30 GMT
Any chance you could show us a quick tutorial of how you get the rotors working properly? can't seem to get them to behave
|
|
|
Post by bobbyjones on Feb 22, 2015 17:56:41 GMT
this is a badass design the only bad part is the many controls. Otherwise its a amazing design
|
|
|
Post by popotato on Feb 22, 2015 20:39:47 GMT
Hi guys so after learning from your copters I have made this myself. What do you guys think? Still haven't put weapons on it though.
K Propellers, </> angle of wings H landing gear J/L roll left/right up/down arrow tail up/down left/right arrow tail left/right
CProgram Files x86SteamsteamappscommonBesie....bsg (11.65 KB)
|
|
|
Post by vandom on Feb 22, 2015 23:15:17 GMT
Hi guys so after learning from your copters I have made this myself. What do you guys think? Still haven't put weapons on it though.
K Propellers, </> angle of wings H landing gear J/L roll left/right up/down arrow tail up/down left/right arrow tail left/right Very nice, stable, and responsive. Sometimes the tail will hit the rotors, and the landing gear seems unnecessary as it is built solid, however I was impressed that it didn't unbalance it when deployed. Also you can reduce the total weight of by shifting weight from the ballasts to the very front instead of distributing it evenly over the front end.
|
|
|
Post by vandom on Feb 23, 2015 2:36:21 GMT
New patch makes amazing helicopters. Been wanting to make this rotor for a while now, took some inspiration from deechens amazing helicopter. HeleX6F.bsg (13.42 KB) Controls: Hover 5 Ascend 5+8 Descend 5+2 Pitch up/down Roll left/right Yaw 4/6
|
|